From
StayCurrentMD
Empyema with Dr. Shawn St. Peter
With Dr. Shawn St. Peter · hosted by Dr. Todd Ponsky
Chapter 1 of 9 · Fundamentals
Introduction
Introduction and Guest Background
Expert statements on this page
No expert statements were drawn from this page.
Host summaries · secondary, not cited in answers
Educational content from recorded physician discussions — not medical advice. Talk to your (or your child's) care team about your situation.
Video
Empyema and Pneumothorax: Update Course 2014
31 min · Published Nov 2018
Video
Difficult Cases of Lung Lesions: Pediatric Thoracic Surgery Part 1-Lung...
21 min · Published Aug 2012
Video
Cholecystitis- Drs Jeffrey Ponsky and Rae Hanke
Jeffrey Ponsky · 24 min · Published Jun 2020
Video
TEF Presentations (Extended): Aerodigestive & Esophageal Surgery
108 min · Published Dec 2014
Video
Update Course 2023 - Updates in Pancreatitis
32 min · Published Aug 2023
Video
Update Course Rewind 2021 - Updates in Pectus
61 min · Published May 2022
Podcast
Update Course Rewind: 2020 Colorectal Part 2
11 min · Published Mar 2021
Video
Colorectal - Clinical Practice Updates
52 min · Published Sep 2020
Video
Pediatric Surgical Oncology Research Collaborative (PSORC): Studying Rare Pediatric Tumors
56 s · Published May 2026
Video
Update Course Rewind 2025: Hirschsprung + ARM: Rare but Real
1 min · Published May 2026
Video
Pooling Patients to Study Rare Pediatric Tumors: An Introduction to PSORC
56 s · Published May 2026
Video
The fetal frontier: A review of current and emerging fetal therapies for genetic diseases
44 s · Published May 2026
Video
Indocyanine green assists with sentinel lymph node mapping in pediatric and adolescent patients
1 min · Published May 2026
Video
Tricuspid valve surgery in transposition of the great arteries with a systemic right ventricle
46 s · Published May 2026
What the experts said
Greater than 10,000 white blood cells in pleural fluid tap was used as the empyema definition and enrollment criterion for the randomized trial, and patients meeting this criterion who were randomized to VATS had findings consistent with typical empyema on thoracoscopy.
Patients with fibrinolysis never got sicker during treatment, whereas patients undergoing VATS sometimes fly pretty close to the treetop after the operation due to barotrauma to the good lung and manipulation of the bad lung.
Chest tube alone for empyema is not adequate treatment.
Historical antibiotic practice at Children's Mercy showed an average of 25 days total antibiotics with 19 days after becoming afebrile, and 40% of patients had complications from antibiotic therapy ranging from diarrhea to fungal superinfections.
Once empyema is treated, the chance of having another empyema is next to none because it is typically a cemented space, resulting in a zero historical event rate for recurrence.
The current antibiotic protocol is 7 days after meeting all three criteria: completed fibrinolysis, off oxygen, and afebrile.
Ultrasound has no disadvantage compared to CT for diagnosing empyema and identifying pleural stranding, and prospective studies show that placing ultrasound before CT decreases CT utilization without changing outcomes.
The fibrinolysis protocol uses 4 mg of TPA mixed into 40 mL of normal saline, instilled into the chest tube with a one-hour dwell time, administered at time of diagnosis, 24 hours, and 48 hours (three doses over 48 hours).
The randomized trial comparing primary VATS to primary fibrinolysis showed no difference in length of stay between the two groups.
The failure rate for fibrinolysis in the Kansas City randomized trial was 1 in 6 (approximately 16%).
When you are not getting an advantage from an operation compared to not doing an operation, and the results are equal, there is no way to recommend the operation.
In 100 consecutive patients treated with fibrinolysis after the randomized trial, the results remained consistent with a 15% failure rate and similar length of stay.
There was no difference in operative time or blood loss in patients who underwent VATS after failed fibrinolysis compared to those who had primary VATS.
Performing limited debridement with VATS when general anesthesia is required nullifies some advantages of fibrinolysis because mechanical debridement kicks up the serum response and positive pressure ventilation affects the other lung.
When sedation is required for chest tube placement, it can be done in the operating room without intubation or positive pressure ventilation using a needle-guided 12-French chest tube, which is less involved than placing a PICC line.
For older children, chest tube placement can be done with local anesthetic injection alone without sedation, as it can be completed in less than a minute.
Chest X-rays after completing fibrinolysis are not terribly useful because they will look pretty bad for quite a while and are not helpful in discerning whether a patient is a candidate for VATS after failed fibrinolysis.
A second round of fibrinolysis is indicated only when there is a temporal and regional explanation for failure, such as a walled-off collection not in continuity with the initial chest tube location.
Failure of fibrinolysis should be defined by persistent clinical illness (requiring oxygen or not eating well) rather than fever alone, typically assessed at 3-4 days after completing treatment.
Patients with extensive pulmonary necrosis should not undergo operative intervention because you risk hurting them much more than helping by manipulating the lung.
Protracted courses with bronchopleural fistulas and Heimlich valves for months only occur when operating in a field of necrosis and debriding that necrosis, getting into the proximal lung rather than peripheral lesions which heal.
During VATS for empyema, if the lung looks necrotic, the principle is to leave the lung alone and clean out the pleural space only.
A patient with complete pulmonary necrosis who underwent needle biopsy died by exsanguinating out of the wound and into the bronchi, demonstrating that necrotic lung does not tolerate being touched.
A 3-year-old patient with bilateral pulmonary necrosis stayed on VV ECMO for almost a month with CT showing hardly any viable lung on either side, did not undergo surgery, came off ECMO and did fine, and would not have survived if anyone had tried to operate.
Multifocal abscesses and complex abscesses can be treated like necrosis by being patient, and even fields of abscesses in patients with underlying disease will typically heal up.
A well-defined peripheral pulmonary abscess can be drained if it is well out into the lung parenchyma with a thick rind, ensuring you are getting into abscess and not airway.
Necrotic lung heals remarkably well without surgical intervention, as demonstrated by a patient with no viable lung on either side after two weeks of ECMO who left the hospital without oxygen.
Available fibrinolytic agents worldwide are urokinase or TPA, and since urokinase is not available in the US after streptokinase came off the market, TPA is the only option in the United States.
The IDSA community-acquired pneumonia guidelines recommended 10 days of antibiotics after becoming afebrile, which was a grade D recommendation based on no data whatsoever.
The Great Ormond Street study by Sannapa et al enrolled 60 patients and found the same results as the Kansas City trial: no difference in length of stay and a 1 in 6 failure rate, using urokinase with a 4-hour dwell time.
A Spanish randomized trial of 100 patients using urokinase found no difference in length of stay and a 15% failure rate, consistent with the other two trials.
A randomized trial in adults suggested more rapid clearance by adding Dornase (DNase) to fibrinolytic therapy, but it is not approved for intrapleural use in the US and requires an IND for study.